Piers Secunda is a British artist who studied painting at Chelsea College of Art in London, where he graduated in 1998. For the past 17 years, Piers Secunda has used paint in a sculptural way and has developed many systems to use it as a sculptural medium. A risk-taker, Piers Secunda's work has taken him to some of the most dangerous places in the world.

In late 2009, while in China, Piers was able to persuade the Chinese Army (PLA) to allow him to photograph with cured paint at a military base near Shanghai. The resulting flower-like bullet holes became a turning point in Piers' practice.  To capture the destruction of culture, Piers travelled to Afghanistan in 2010 to make casts of Taliban bullet holes. In 2018, Iraq's Minister of Culture invited Piers to visit the Mosul and Nineveh Museum to make casts of sculptures destroyed by ISIS during their occupation of the city from 2014 to 2017. Piers has exhibited internationally for many years. His recent exhibitions include Piers Secunda: ISIS Bullet Hole Paintings, University of Houston Art Gallery, 2019, What Remains, Imperial War Museum, London, 2018 and ISIS Damage Paintings, Private Residence of the Iraq Ambassador to the UK, London, 2018-2019

His new installations, Owning the Past: from Mesopotamia to Iraq, are now part of the Ashmolean Museum's permanent collection.

August 8, 2021

Interview Directory 

ART

Name: Piers Secunda

Occupation: Artist

Mission: Exploring the destruction of culture.

11 Steel Beam Rust Drawing - Root Over Rock - 2021 Steel beam rust ink

911 Steel Beam Rust Drawing Potatoes 2021 - Steel beam rust ink on. ©Piers Secunda

"My art has been used as a tool of diplomacy."

What is the ultimate message of your work?

What bothers me the most about the destruction of culture, is when the targets are Museums and ancient sites. It's incredible that human beings have been doing this since people settled in the Fertile Crescent 11,000 years ago. The fact that we live in the era of artificial intelligence but refuse to stop destroying each others cultures, is astounding to me. If there is one message that I hope resounds through these works, it's that the eggshell thin walls of our museums, are only as strong as our willingness to protect them.

"I've never been under the control of a government in making my work."

Can it be said that you are a war artist?

The title of "War Artist" is usually given to an artist who is commissioned by the Government go to a war zone and make work about what they find there. I've never been under the control of a government in making my work. Government people have assisted my access to places but they have never edited what I make, which also happens to war artists.

My work has also documented the tearing down of pockets of diverse architectural landscapes in central London over the last five years. You don't have to go to a war zone to see the destruction of heritage! In central London, in Victoria, a city block consisting of a collection of some of the most diverse architectures in London, was smashed to the ground with a wrecking ball several years ago. There were remarkable examples of Art Deco, Victorian, Georgian, Brutalist and Minimalist style buildings on the block, plus a very characterful old pub. All swept away for the sake of a faceless mirrored glass and steel office building. I photographed pictures of the original buildings against the backdrop of what is there now. Whilst I was taking the photos, a group of Italian tourists came and looked. They were shocked to see what had disappeared. Those photos are currently being exhibited in Shanghai at the German Consulate.

For the Ashmolean exhibition, you got access to the Mosul Museum for your art with the help of the Iraq Culture Minister. How did this relationship come about?

I was invited to the UNESCO General Meeting in Paris in September 2017, to attend two days of talks about the destruction of culture by religious extremists in the Middle East and Africa. When the first session started, I found that I was sitting ten feet away from the Secretary General and the Iraqi Culture Minister. During an intermission I introduced myself to the Iraqi Culture Minister, Fryad Rwandozi. I gave him a postcard showing one of the ISIS works and he asked me when I was coming to Baghdad. I improvised and told him: March. So I went along in March 2018, interviewed him and he gave me a letter from the State Board of Antiquities, stating that I could make moulds of the smashed sculptures inside the Mosul Museum. So I flew to the North of Iraq and went to Mosul. Fryad Rwandozi and I are friends. He's a serious supporter of my work, as is the wife of Jalal Talabani, the former President of Iraq.

Through a war, artists often play a secondary role within the war region. Have you learned how the artists who live in the crisis areas are doing?

They are struggling. I know several artists who are in the North of Iraq. Ameen Mokdad, a friend and musician from Mosul has had to leave Iraq altogether. It isn't safe for him there... Two artists who I know have sold nothing for years and are now overwhelmed by the ongoing issues of security in Iraq, lack of consistent health services, intermittent electrical blackouts, inflation etc. It's remarkable when you see the endurance of the human spirit but making art in such places is exceptionally difficult... its when you start to hear about the art that's being made in places like that, you realise that life has normalised in a pretty serious way but it can take decades.

How do you see the role of your art in the conflicts and what can it improve? Has your art resulted in any concrete action?

My art has been used as a tool of diplomacy. In 2017 the Kurdish Region of Iraq held a referendum for independence from Iraq. This was a protest at decades of mass killing under Saddam and mistreatment by Baghdad. The result was a 93% vote for independence. This was met in Baghdad by the Iraqi army invading the Kurdish region, specifically with the intention of taking away the city of Kirkuk, which sits of a massive oil field. The Peshmerga pulled out of Kirkuk to prevent a civil war but stopped the Iraqi Army by force on the northern side of Kirkuk. You can imagine the tensions between the Kurdish Region and Baghdad. So I was stunned when the Kurdish High Representative to the UK asked me to mount a collaborative exhibition with the Iraqi Embassy in London, of my ISIS works. We did the exhibition, which happened in the Iraq Ambassadors house and ran for a year. The High Representative and the Ambassador are still friends and I've seen them both at events since, sitting together, talking intently. They had only met for seconds before the exhibition. Their staff know each other well now. Getting them all into the same room was something I never thought could be done, so I felt quite amazed when I saw it happen. It was a remarkable leap of faith by both sides and something I will never forget.

I'm very proud that I give a percentage of any sales of ISIS related works to a Kurdish orphan charity called Kind Aid. They give kids whose parents died as a result of the war against ISIS, a roof over their heads, clothes, food and an education. The charity operates in the area that I first visited and took moulds, to the South West of Kirkuk. Its a tiny operation, run by a few people, so I know that the money is direct and has an immediate and effect. 

"It's one thing for me to get upset but a totally different thing to try to talk to someone in a situation like that, who is feeling such an emotional resonance from my art."

What was your most emotional experience in terms of your work? Are there also positive experiences you have had?

After visiting the desecrated Mosul Museum, I went to Qarakosh, a Christian city about half an hour away. There I was shown around the main church, more of a cathedral really, which had been torched and in the catacombs of which the Peshmerga forces had found a huddled group of naked Yazidi women, who had been herded in there as the city was seized back from ISIS. It had been a heart breaking day, and this story along with the experiences of the previous couple of days and the sight of the blackened church was all overwhelming. I had to walk outside, away from the Iraqi Army, who were moving me around and taking care of me, so I could gather my emotions and try to keep it together.

I've comforted American, European and Middle Eastern people who have cried in front of my works. It's one thing for me to get upset but a totally different thing to try to talk to someone in a situation like that, who is feeling such an emotional resonance from my art.

I once watched a teenaged boy walk out from under a largely destroyed building in Mosul, with breads on a huge dish balanced on his head. He had a distinct swagger to his walk. It really lifted me, and I realised that the illuminated room under the wrecked building was a bakery! I'm continually bowled over by the strength and endurance of the human spirit.

Find more about this amazing artist under:

www.pierssecunda.com

Instagram

@pierssecunda

@ashmoleanmuseum

Piers Secunda